posted by [identity profile] jonesiexxx.livejournal.com at 04:55am on 07/01/2004
Beautiful essay.

I don't have a problem with inherited wisdom and values, if they are truly felt. Not everyone can craft an ethos for himself. Or find one.

The thing that so complicates life and free will and our sense of the good, (or one thing), is that there are so many ethoses to choose from.

Duty and self-sacrifice for a higher good are one dominant strain. But, a competing one is solipsism. Creating an idiosyncratic moral nook for oneself in a universe one perceives has having no absolutes. This often takes the shape of lovers living in a cocoon, sacrificing for each other, but for nothing else. Oddly, or maybe not so oddly, charismatic sociopaths do this too. Think Jonestown.

I go back to the comparison between Casablanca and The English Patient. Three lives don't amount to a hill of beans compared to fighting Nazis vs. My lover's life is far more important than fighting Nazis.

I think these days, in the West, a whole crapload of people would make the latter choice, and feel it was the moral choice. We root for Aragorn and Frodo, but would we be Aragorn and Frodo? Let alone the King of Rohan and Faromir (who should have whacked his father upside his head, imo, but for the good of Gondor, not himself).

Benjamin Cisko chooses a celibate, mysterious mingling with ascetism and alien godhead over Jake and Kassidy and hearth and home. How many people would really do that?

I don't know how many would really have done it in, say, 1925. But, then there would have been a sense of shame in letting down the side.

Maybe that's what we've lost. Shame, stigma. Unlike many people I know, I'm not averse to guilt. When it's earned, it ought to be felt.

So, here's to duty and (appropriate) shame. They are two of the building blocks of civilization.

It's late. I'm punchy. Sorry if I wandered more than usual.
 
posted by [identity profile] missmurchison.livejournal.com at 02:24am on 08/01/2004
Thank both of you for the thoughtful posts, which make me ashamed of the silliness, Casablanca-related and otherwise, I've been posting.
 
posted by [identity profile] jonesiexxx.livejournal.com at 08:15pm on 08/01/2004
which make me ashamed of the silliness, Casablanca-related and otherwise, I've been posting.

This is inappropriate shame. It's okay to render unto Caesar. But, if you're still feeling guilty, I'll be happy to spank you.
 
posted by [identity profile] revdorothyl.livejournal.com at 08:35pm on 08/01/2004
I second that emotion. Miss M, you brighten our lives and have nothing to feel ashamed of. Don't you dare stop posting your divine "silliness," as you call it, or I'll be happy to join in on the spanking.
 
posted by [identity profile] revdorothyl.livejournal.com at 08:32pm on 08/01/2004
Thanks for bringing in the other side of the coin. Since my natural inclination is to focus on the empty half of the glass and contemplate the "void" in human existence, I MAY be overcompensating a bit in this essay, working overtime to accentuate the more hopeful signs or possibilities of our contemporary situation. There certainly are many competing 'meta-narratives' or mythologies and world-views to choose from, leading to a lack of the sense of 'moral absolutes' that might once have come from one shared, dominant mythology. And, as you point out, whether as a result of the difficulty of knowing which to choose or seizing upon post-modernism as an excuse not to consider anything beyond oneself, there are many people who choose to define "The Good" as simply "good for me and mine" and never look beyond that (which my brother seemed to be citing as the majority opinion).

Going into shame ("I'm bad") and guilt ("I did something that was bad") would take more time than we have now, but thanks for bringing all these things to the table. Maybe we can talk them over further in coming weeks?
 
posted by [identity profile] jonesiexxx.livejournal.com at 10:49pm on 08/01/2004
You make me sound about a thousand times more intelligent and coherent than I was. Wanna be my Bosworth? My love slave?
 
posted by [identity profile] revdorothyl.livejournal.com at 01:45am on 09/01/2004
Sure. Whichever. I'm just a big old nympho when it comes to scintillating intellectual discussions. Oops. Did I actually write that, and not just think it? Better stop now.

October

SunMonTueWedThuFriSat
1
 
2
 
3
 
4
 
5
 
6
 
7
 
8
 
9
 
10
 
11
 
12
 
13
 
14
 
15
 
16
 
17 18
 
19
 
20
 
21
 
22
 
23
 
24
 
25
 
26
 
27
 
28
 
29
 
30
 
31