creature demons vs. biblical demons? : comments [Confessions of a Liberal Puritan]

In AYW S6, Riley manages to find a balance. He rediscovers the structure that makes him feel safe, locates a woman who appreciates that structure for the same reasons he does, yet at the same time realizes that there are things that lie outside of it - outside of the rules (Spike, OZ, Buffy are all examples). Whedon forshadows this resolution in Restless - where he depicts Riley leaving Buffy in her dream. He doesn't leave because Buffy is part demon, as she fear's, but because her life is more chaotic than he can handle. He is somewhat cruel when he leaves - stating that she does not love him, when in reality it is that she does not love him enough to change her life for him, to leave her world for his as he believes he's left his world for hers. He feels he's the only one who made the sacrifice. And he is not entirely wrong, except what he doesn't acknowledge is that Buffy did make an effort in S4 to join his world - granted it was short lived, but she did try.

I would not go so far as to state that Riley's view, religion or way is wrong, nor do I think the writers have stated that. "As You Were" clearly demonstrates this - showing how you can live in that world and make it work for you. What is wrong is trying to force someone else into a role that does not work for them - making them become what you want them to become out of love for you - a theme that seems to encompass both shows and I think does hit upon religion. Too many religions seek to impose their views on others. I think Riley's journey may be an examination of how you find what is best for you without imposing it on someone else.

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I like your insights alot! I'm particularly struck by the idea of Riley having to learn that there's more "chaos" on the side of "Good" and more "order" on the side of "Evil" (at times) than many believers and especially many scholars of religion have traditionally acknowledged. Buffy and the rest of her "anarchist" do-gooders (working outside the system, outside the chain of command, doing it their own way, in a world in which you really SHOULDN'T speak Latin in front of the books, if you don't know what you're doing) attract him, at least as much as Adam/Prof. Walsh's usurpation of his free will in the name of "bringing order to a chaotic world" (see Jasmine's pitch, as well, on this) repulse him. Yet, he really needs more order than the Scoobies deal with, and I can see how -- for HIM -- where he is in AYW is a good place (back in the fold, but with clearer objectives and chock full of free will). After his experience with Walsh and Adam, I don't think he'd ever be willing to follow blindly OR impose his own beliefs about wrong and right arbitrarily on others ever again.

Very interesting!

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Yes - and in AYW, which is actually a better episode than many of us give it credit for, does show how Riley's changed. Note - he does not tell Buffy how to handle Spike nor does he cart Spike off or apprehend him - even though it's clear that Spike was the person he was hunting. Later, he tells the operatives in Sunnydale that when it comes to Spike to defer to Buffy. This a huge change - and it is one that began in "New Moon Rising" - when Riley has a sort of Epiphany, he realizes Buffy's right, he is being prejudice, that the universe does not fit into neat little boxes. But he struggles with the notion - as we see in Yoko Factor. And Buffy, to give her credit, understands that struggle - because she's faced with a similar challenge when she finds out Willow is in love with Tara - which momentarily gives Buffy wiggins, as she puts it.

The theme of order vs. chaos is consistent in all of Whedon's tales - from BTVS-Firefly. And he explores the negative and positive aspects of both. Wolf Ram & Hart symbolize order in Angel's universe, Jasmine is a demon of order, yet the Beast which brings her into fruitation - chaos.
In Buffy - we have the Mayor, obsessed with order as well as Adam, while on the chaos side - Angelus/Spike/Dru/and to an extent Glory. The First Evil and Caleb represent both. In Firefly - we see it represented in the "Alliance" vs. "The Reavers", with the crew of Firefly representing the middle ground.

It's a problem in many religions, I think - finding that balance. Knowing when to control and when to allow people to come to their conclusions. The difference between dictating and guiding, because God does not dictate so much as guide us, if God dictated there would not be free will. People think that if you make everything orderly, structured, evil won't exist. (Recently I had a conversation with someone who actually said Hitler had the right idea, he was a good leader, because he imposed order. Dictated how people should live their lives, that we should not have free will, and indeed have too many rights. So lives were lost, at least everyone had a job, food, shelter - much like Connor's justification of Jasmine - so people are eaten, at least everyone's happy. But there's no art, no creativity, and free will is gone. Many religions state the same thing - they dictate.)

Have you read Phillip Pullman's "His Dark Materials"? It is in some respects a counter-argument to the Christian beliefs of CS Lewis as depicted in the Narnia novels or the view of an "orderly" world. In it Pullman appears to state that without free will, we have nothing. That being controlled is worse than death. Whedon states the same thing. Yet, if we have no rules, no order, no structure - we will destroy ourselves. There has to be a middle ground.

The fight between the two extremes isn't just in religion, we see it in economic systems and government infrastructures. Anarchy on one side - Tolitarianism on the other. The systems that survive the longest are the ones that discover a middle ground.

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Confessions of a Liberal Puritan

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